Matti Friedman has written some interesting pieces at the Free Press and other publications over the years but he has some blind spots in his thinking that flip the truth on its head. For example when he wrote his one sided screed on Israel’s judicial reform way back when, without even giving a hint of the need for a reform of the justice system. A more non-NY Times like discussion for an American audience would have served TFP readers better.
Matti Friedman, Yossi Klein Halevi and Daniel Gordis wrote a piece in the NYT in February 2023 supporting the anti-judicial reform protests in Israel. Not only was their article factually incorrect and highly tendentious; it had the effect of sullying Israel's reputation internationally. Mr. Friedman's reporting of the recent incident continues in much the same vein. The old Yishuv elite's descendants sit atop most of Israel's major institutions and secrete their leftist ideology which does more harm to Israel, both internally and internationally, than anything Israel's enemies dream up, acting as an echo chamber for dolts abroad in much the same way that nasty Ben Rhodes' echo chamber helped the inimical Barack Hussein Obama backstab Israel by favouring Iran with his crazy nuclear deal. If the Advocate General thought there was a violation of IDF ethics, she could have first discreetly made inquiries, especially in time of war. But like the crazy Attorney-General, she decided to send masked, yes masked! soldiers to arrest suspected felons who were doing reserve duty. What better way than to sap Israeli morale. How disgusting! No wonder the USA feels it can sanction Jewish sheep herders in Judea and Samaria and get its allies to do likewise while Israel suffers violent Palestinian extremists' attacks in Judea and Samaria during wartime. Shame on the Military Advocate and all who justify her actions.
'The internal rot is not the fault of the “far-right and religious extremists” who are the bogeymen for all of Israeli’s troubles. The internal rot is from the far-left that has taken over all too many Israeli institutions. The lack of confidence in these institutions by “the people” is the core of the rot.'
It is remarkable how closely Israel's political problems parallel America's (allowing for many obvious differences of course).
While I do not claim to have detailed information about all of the events you mention, a leftist out of touch elite is perfectly credible, given our experience here in the USA ("We have the Chief Military Prosecutor who thinks her job is to serve some abstract law and to serve the Hague – and not to serve the people and the soldiers. She thinks that investigating the death of an October 7th terrorist caught red-handed is more important than anything else she has to do.")
I would be willing to bet that the vast majority of the out-of-touch leftist Israeli elite shares some common values with that same elite that is also so powerful here:
That homosexuality is normal and healthy, and should be celebrated and encouraged.
That role reversal and unisex are desirable policies.
That people who are willing to face and deal with harsh realities are narrow-minded, ignorant and intolerant, while deadly enemies must be conciliated and placated.
That the universe came into being as the result of an accidental collision of natural forces, that there is no God, that divine law is irrelevant, that traditional moral laws are irrelevant.
That human beings came into existence as the result of random and impersonal interactions which led to our evolution from lower life forms.
These false leftist secular values are deeply destructive and inhuman, and go a long way to explaining the decline of the West.
This is an important piece and reflects that the leadership of the IDF are prioritizing their continued careers over service. That attitude is actually the opposite of the hundreds of thousands of reservists who prioritize service over their careers. Trust can only be restored by the entire Oct 6 IDF senior leadership going home.
Every word he writes gets support. And not because I like Ira or his essays (they are all good), and not because I take some political side (I am far from politics, but this does not mean that I am stupid or blind), but because he clearly and intelligibly showed that everything we have read before (at least, I have read) in the media on this topic is manipulation by journalists, politicians and another attempt to distort the processes taking place in Israeli society.
A big minus to Matti Friedman, despite the fact that before this he remained an adequate journalist (working in inadequate media).
Sorry but no. You should have stopped with people breaking into the military base. Whether you like it or not, IDF soldiers committed a heinous act. Israel is better than that by any stretch of the imagination and anyone angry about these soldiers being detained or arrested should be ashamed of themselves.
And comparing them to the antijudicial reform protests is simply specious. I don't see where the judicial reform protests broke into any government buildings or military bases. I see street protests. What happened at the military base was not free speech. It was anarchy and an insurrection.
You are assuming guilt that is probably not there. And if it is, they will be convicted. As I wrote, I am not condoning any crime but defending the protesters and the “assumption of guilt” by the military prosecutors. The fact that they call freed terrorists to check if they were abused shows me that they have no clue what their job is.
And none of it justifies the humiliating way they were treated - and the demand that no information get released. That is a time honored tradition of the prosecution and courts in Israel to shut the people up.
i am neither assuming guilt nor innocence. But i do know how investigations work. They do not announce any information to the general public ever, whether civilian or military. If there is a trial, information will be given to the defense and they can attack any proof that is brought at trial. So going to ask terrorists what may have happened can be part of the investigation, it can also be attacked at trial if it comes to that.
And the rioters were just that rioters. They were not anything like the antijudicial reform protests. And even if they were, simply because someone gets a reduced or dismissed charge does not entitle you to "riot" anymore than when a murder charge is dismissed on a technicality can you go out and commit murder.
Those who broke into the military base need to go to prison and the knesset members who backed them need to be dismissed and held to legal account as well. This crap endangers Israel security and all should be ashamed of themselves.
That is not how investigations work in the military. Commanders are contacted and soldiers are interviewed. And no - there is no expectation that the prosecutors will cold call people to see if they were violated in order to fish for crimes. That is not acceptable.
As for comparing rioters to the Judicial reform rioters - they didn't reach their level of violence at all.
Going to jail for breaking into a base? Sure. But let's remember what happens in Israel. Bedouin on a regular basis enter military bases and steal equipment and ISRAELI SOLDIERS ARE NOT ALLOWED TO STOP THEM!!! You read that right. You can break into a military base, steal equipment in front of soldiers and the soldiers are not allowed to stop them. They can only call the police.
Please don't compare US law enforcement to Israeli law enforcement.
Finally - this was no riot in the sense that we had major riots with fires, fighting, road blockages and more last year.
Should the guilty be punished? Sure. As long as the law is equal.
I cannot comment on whether the bedouins are arrested or not. And yes I am here in the US.
However, investigators always cold call people known to be in proximity of a crime to find out if they were also subject to the crime or know details of the crime. Not only did I work at a DAs office while in law school, I have friends who served in the JAG Corp. Investigations are investigations, unless you are implying that the charges are made up so let the investigation prove that.
But if I am not going to compare legal systems, are you saying though that the Israeli judicial system is corrupt and maybe the ICJ and the rest of the international community is correct and Israel cannot police itself?
It also doesn't matter whether there were fired roadblocks, etc. They broke into an army base in order to either 1) remove the soldiers under investigation, 2) intimidate the investigators. What they did was create mayhem on an army base at time of war. It was a hell of alot worse than what the antijudicial reform people did.
A. The Bedouin example is not a one off but a regular occurrence.
B. The cold calls had nothing to do with this alleged crime. Rather they were searching for a crime. If i am not mistaken hunting expeditions like that are not usual practice.
C. The corruption of the Israeli political system is that it is strict only on those who are politically incorrect.
Ira answered you, but I will add that from the first minutes (in Israel news spreads instantly), I already understood what was going on, and was just waiting for confirmation of my suspicions. The guilt of these soldiers was not only not proven, it was invented on orders from above to the military prosecutor's office in order to organize a demonstrative witch hunt. Ask why? I will gladly answer: There are certain standards of behavior in Israeli society, and this case broke every one of the many standards of behavior. The prosecutor's office, the court, the army, politicians and society. A dozen factors screamed at once that this could not have happened except on fabricated charges. There could have been violence, but only if the prisoner attacked the guards and the violence was retaliatory, there could have been disobedience by the soldiers, but only after the outrageous actions of the prosecutor's office, and the result of this was popular unrest, which showed that they do not trust the far-left judicial elite, which is trying to build its own policy during a war. Two weeks have already passed, and judging by the results, it is clear that my first impression was correct. Although it is possible that the judicial system will want to go against the law and legal processes. Then the next consideration of judicial reform will be completely different.
You do not get to excuse violent illegal behavior because you dont like the actions of the "elite." A catch phrase, by the way, used by those who simply do not like the outcome of an investigation, or an election.
And accusing the military and politicians of fabricating these heinous charges because of what? Why would they do that? Why? At a time of war, when the entire international community is looking to point the finger at Israel to say that Israel is as barbaric as her enemies? This is nonsensical and a poor excuse for these young mens actions.
By the way, it can take more than 1 day or several weeks to bring charges if charges are to be brought.
You can presume innocence. It is an essential part of a our legal system. But it also doesn’t mean there isnt an investigation and it doesn’t mean that the rioters are legitimate.
By the way, you may think you didnt excuse anything but having read your piece you definitely did.
There were no rioters. The prosecutor's office and the military police also violated protocols, as did the entire prison and military police system. Soldiers were not supposed to guard terrorists at all, they are not designed for this, and this is the first sign that they were the easiest to set up, because they are not trained for such actions. Even simply their incorrect actions due to lack of training could serve as an accusation, and the public would be fed a story about "inhumane treatment" of terrorists. I do not understand the actions of the prosecutor's office, they behaved very incomprehensibly (and will defend themselves by saying that "this is necessary for the investigation"), but I understand the actions of others who are accustomed to the fact that the judicial system is not controlled by either the authorities or the state.
First of all, I am not justifying, because there is nothing to justify. There was no violence, no riot, no what they are trying to present as a riot.
I have a rough idea of what happened and I do not agree with the form of these incidents, but the fact that there was a danger that the judicial system would try to start a witch hunt is a very possible option, and if it were not for the wide publicity, we could have received a blow from the judicial system in the form of falsely convicted or unnecessary legal proceedings for the country.
You are simply under the influence of the press, which gave you only one point of view, I give you another, but you still do not agree to consider it.
EKB, have you seen footage? Do you have information you’re not sharing. Why so presumptuous? We know from former Palestinian and even Hamas prisoners that Muslim on Muslim violence is the norm in these prisons.
I had a big online argument w/an Israeli leftist (who lives in the US) about blocking roads. I won't recount the details - as tedious as they were enraging - but basically he said he disagreed with doing that in the US because it's "different" here but in Israel it's OK because a lot of the drivers agree with the road blockers.
You deal with that, I just can't.
Can you tell us more about that phone call to Gaza?
Many phone calls to Gaza searching out crimes. The calls had nothing to do with this or any other case - rather, it was a search for a crime and an assumption that a terrorist will tell the truth while your own soldiers would not.
“And the scenes were not “unprecedented” since they happened all of last year. If not breaking into military bases other government and private buildings were threatened.” In other words, they were unprecedented, given that you compare them to vague threats (without giving specific examples).
Your examples weren’t pioneered by the Kaplan Gang but were also seen in protests against the Bennett-Lapid government, the disengagement, and Oslo. Literally breaking into an army base, however, is something quite new, which is what Friedman’s article is correctly getting at.
The disengagement had only road blocking in which, as opposed to the Kaplan protests had arrests and conviction. As a matter of fact, 15 year old girls were held for a month without access to their parents or lawyers. There was never an attempt to break into homes or to protest in front of people's private homes. That was pioneered by the "black flags" - the predecessor to Kaplan.
Kaplan was the first time NO arrests were made to violent and illegal actions.
You said no arrests were made, I showed there were. Instead it acknowledging your error you are shifting the goalposts. And on the subject of arrests, my understanding is that nobody who broke into the army base last week has been arrested.
Matti Friedman, Yossi Klein Halevi and Daniel Gordis wrote a piece in the NYT in February 2023 supporting the anti-judicial reform protests in Israel. Not only was their article factually incorrect and highly tendentious; it had the effect of sullying Israel's reputation internationally. Mr. Friedman's reporting of the recent incident continues in much the same vein. The old Yishuv elite's descendants sit atop most of Israel's major institutions and secrete their leftist ideology which does more harm to Israel, both internally and internationally, than anything Israel's enemies dream up, acting as an echo chamber for dolts abroad in much the same way that nasty Ben Rhodes' echo chamber helped the inimical Barack Hussein Obama backstab Israel by favouring Iran with his crazy nuclear deal. If the Advocate General thought there was a violation of IDF ethics, she could have first discreetly made inquiries, especially in time of war. But like the crazy Attorney-General, she decided to send masked, yes masked! soldiers to arrest suspected felons who were doing reserve duty. What better way than to sap Israeli morale. How disgusting! No wonder the USA feels it can sanction Jewish sheep herders in Judea and Samaria and get its allies to do likewise while Israel suffers violent Palestinian extremists' attacks in Judea and Samaria during wartime. Shame on the Military Advocate and all who justify her actions.
No one spent more than one night in jail. And almost
None even that.
No real arrests. All released.
This is just the truth- like it or not.
'The internal rot is not the fault of the “far-right and religious extremists” who are the bogeymen for all of Israeli’s troubles. The internal rot is from the far-left that has taken over all too many Israeli institutions. The lack of confidence in these institutions by “the people” is the core of the rot.'
It is remarkable how closely Israel's political problems parallel America's (allowing for many obvious differences of course).
While I do not claim to have detailed information about all of the events you mention, a leftist out of touch elite is perfectly credible, given our experience here in the USA ("We have the Chief Military Prosecutor who thinks her job is to serve some abstract law and to serve the Hague – and not to serve the people and the soldiers. She thinks that investigating the death of an October 7th terrorist caught red-handed is more important than anything else she has to do.")
I would be willing to bet that the vast majority of the out-of-touch leftist Israeli elite shares some common values with that same elite that is also so powerful here:
That homosexuality is normal and healthy, and should be celebrated and encouraged.
That role reversal and unisex are desirable policies.
That people who are willing to face and deal with harsh realities are narrow-minded, ignorant and intolerant, while deadly enemies must be conciliated and placated.
That the universe came into being as the result of an accidental collision of natural forces, that there is no God, that divine law is irrelevant, that traditional moral laws are irrelevant.
That human beings came into existence as the result of random and impersonal interactions which led to our evolution from lower life forms.
These false leftist secular values are deeply destructive and inhuman, and go a long way to explaining the decline of the West.
This is an important piece and reflects that the leadership of the IDF are prioritizing their continued careers over service. That attitude is actually the opposite of the hundreds of thousands of reservists who prioritize service over their careers. Trust can only be restored by the entire Oct 6 IDF senior leadership going home.
Here, I am firmly and consciously on Ira's side.
Every word he writes gets support. And not because I like Ira or his essays (they are all good), and not because I take some political side (I am far from politics, but this does not mean that I am stupid or blind), but because he clearly and intelligibly showed that everything we have read before (at least, I have read) in the media on this topic is manipulation by journalists, politicians and another attempt to distort the processes taking place in Israeli society.
A big minus to Matti Friedman, despite the fact that before this he remained an adequate journalist (working in inadequate media).
Yes. That was after the black flags protests at private homes.
Sorry but no. You should have stopped with people breaking into the military base. Whether you like it or not, IDF soldiers committed a heinous act. Israel is better than that by any stretch of the imagination and anyone angry about these soldiers being detained or arrested should be ashamed of themselves.
And comparing them to the antijudicial reform protests is simply specious. I don't see where the judicial reform protests broke into any government buildings or military bases. I see street protests. What happened at the military base was not free speech. It was anarchy and an insurrection.
You are assuming guilt that is probably not there. And if it is, they will be convicted. As I wrote, I am not condoning any crime but defending the protesters and the “assumption of guilt” by the military prosecutors. The fact that they call freed terrorists to check if they were abused shows me that they have no clue what their job is.
And none of it justifies the humiliating way they were treated - and the demand that no information get released. That is a time honored tradition of the prosecution and courts in Israel to shut the people up.
i am neither assuming guilt nor innocence. But i do know how investigations work. They do not announce any information to the general public ever, whether civilian or military. If there is a trial, information will be given to the defense and they can attack any proof that is brought at trial. So going to ask terrorists what may have happened can be part of the investigation, it can also be attacked at trial if it comes to that.
And the rioters were just that rioters. They were not anything like the antijudicial reform protests. And even if they were, simply because someone gets a reduced or dismissed charge does not entitle you to "riot" anymore than when a murder charge is dismissed on a technicality can you go out and commit murder.
Those who broke into the military base need to go to prison and the knesset members who backed them need to be dismissed and held to legal account as well. This crap endangers Israel security and all should be ashamed of themselves.
That is not how investigations work in the military. Commanders are contacted and soldiers are interviewed. And no - there is no expectation that the prosecutors will cold call people to see if they were violated in order to fish for crimes. That is not acceptable.
As for comparing rioters to the Judicial reform rioters - they didn't reach their level of violence at all.
Going to jail for breaking into a base? Sure. But let's remember what happens in Israel. Bedouin on a regular basis enter military bases and steal equipment and ISRAELI SOLDIERS ARE NOT ALLOWED TO STOP THEM!!! You read that right. You can break into a military base, steal equipment in front of soldiers and the soldiers are not allowed to stop them. They can only call the police.
Please don't compare US law enforcement to Israeli law enforcement.
Finally - this was no riot in the sense that we had major riots with fires, fighting, road blockages and more last year.
Should the guilty be punished? Sure. As long as the law is equal.
I cannot comment on whether the bedouins are arrested or not. And yes I am here in the US.
However, investigators always cold call people known to be in proximity of a crime to find out if they were also subject to the crime or know details of the crime. Not only did I work at a DAs office while in law school, I have friends who served in the JAG Corp. Investigations are investigations, unless you are implying that the charges are made up so let the investigation prove that.
But if I am not going to compare legal systems, are you saying though that the Israeli judicial system is corrupt and maybe the ICJ and the rest of the international community is correct and Israel cannot police itself?
It also doesn't matter whether there were fired roadblocks, etc. They broke into an army base in order to either 1) remove the soldiers under investigation, 2) intimidate the investigators. What they did was create mayhem on an army base at time of war. It was a hell of alot worse than what the antijudicial reform people did.
A. The Bedouin example is not a one off but a regular occurrence.
B. The cold calls had nothing to do with this alleged crime. Rather they were searching for a crime. If i am not mistaken hunting expeditions like that are not usual practice.
C. The corruption of the Israeli political system is that it is strict only on those who are politically incorrect.
Honestly, I think you are looking for an excuse to make it ok for what these rioters did at the army base. Nothing will make that ok.
Ira answered you, but I will add that from the first minutes (in Israel news spreads instantly), I already understood what was going on, and was just waiting for confirmation of my suspicions. The guilt of these soldiers was not only not proven, it was invented on orders from above to the military prosecutor's office in order to organize a demonstrative witch hunt. Ask why? I will gladly answer: There are certain standards of behavior in Israeli society, and this case broke every one of the many standards of behavior. The prosecutor's office, the court, the army, politicians and society. A dozen factors screamed at once that this could not have happened except on fabricated charges. There could have been violence, but only if the prisoner attacked the guards and the violence was retaliatory, there could have been disobedience by the soldiers, but only after the outrageous actions of the prosecutor's office, and the result of this was popular unrest, which showed that they do not trust the far-left judicial elite, which is trying to build its own policy during a war. Two weeks have already passed, and judging by the results, it is clear that my first impression was correct. Although it is possible that the judicial system will want to go against the law and legal processes. Then the next consideration of judicial reform will be completely different.
You do not get to excuse violent illegal behavior because you dont like the actions of the "elite." A catch phrase, by the way, used by those who simply do not like the outcome of an investigation, or an election.
And accusing the military and politicians of fabricating these heinous charges because of what? Why would they do that? Why? At a time of war, when the entire international community is looking to point the finger at Israel to say that Israel is as barbaric as her enemies? This is nonsensical and a poor excuse for these young mens actions.
By the way, it can take more than 1 day or several weeks to bring charges if charges are to be brought.
I didn’t excuse anything. I criticized Friedman’s one sided screed and gave context- something i expect if a journalist.
My sympathies do lie with the reservists and knowing how the system works here I presume innocence.
You can presume innocence. It is an essential part of a our legal system. But it also doesn’t mean there isnt an investigation and it doesn’t mean that the rioters are legitimate.
By the way, you may think you didnt excuse anything but having read your piece you definitely did.
There were no rioters. The prosecutor's office and the military police also violated protocols, as did the entire prison and military police system. Soldiers were not supposed to guard terrorists at all, they are not designed for this, and this is the first sign that they were the easiest to set up, because they are not trained for such actions. Even simply their incorrect actions due to lack of training could serve as an accusation, and the public would be fed a story about "inhumane treatment" of terrorists. I do not understand the actions of the prosecutor's office, they behaved very incomprehensibly (and will defend themselves by saying that "this is necessary for the investigation"), but I understand the actions of others who are accustomed to the fact that the judicial system is not controlled by either the authorities or the state.
First of all, I am not justifying, because there is nothing to justify. There was no violence, no riot, no what they are trying to present as a riot.
I have a rough idea of what happened and I do not agree with the form of these incidents, but the fact that there was a danger that the judicial system would try to start a witch hunt is a very possible option, and if it were not for the wide publicity, we could have received a blow from the judicial system in the form of falsely convicted or unnecessary legal proceedings for the country.
You are simply under the influence of the press, which gave you only one point of view, I give you another, but you still do not agree to consider it.
EKB, have you seen footage? Do you have information you’re not sharing. Why so presumptuous? We know from former Palestinian and even Hamas prisoners that Muslim on Muslim violence is the norm in these prisons.
I had a big online argument w/an Israeli leftist (who lives in the US) about blocking roads. I won't recount the details - as tedious as they were enraging - but basically he said he disagreed with doing that in the US because it's "different" here but in Israel it's OK because a lot of the drivers agree with the road blockers.
You deal with that, I just can't.
Can you tell us more about that phone call to Gaza?
Many phone calls to Gaza searching out crimes. The calls had nothing to do with this or any other case - rather, it was a search for a crime and an assumption that a terrorist will tell the truth while your own soldiers would not.
I don't understand any of that.
Look, I'm not trying to be difficult. I'm just... baffled. You mean Israeli bigwigs called Hamas/other terrorists? Really?
“And the scenes were not “unprecedented” since they happened all of last year. If not breaking into military bases other government and private buildings were threatened.” In other words, they were unprecedented, given that you compare them to vague threats (without giving specific examples).
1. Detailed plans to break into Netanyahu's house in Caesarea
2. Constant attempts to enter his house.
3. Breaking through barriers setup in Jerusalem at the PM's official residence.
4. Break in to the Knesset to disrupt Knesset Committees.
5. Break into buildings of government ministers and MK's
Do we need to go on?
Your examples weren’t pioneered by the Kaplan Gang but were also seen in protests against the Bennett-Lapid government, the disengagement, and Oslo. Literally breaking into an army base, however, is something quite new, which is what Friedman’s article is correctly getting at.
The disengagement had only road blocking in which, as opposed to the Kaplan protests had arrests and conviction. As a matter of fact, 15 year old girls were held for a month without access to their parents or lawyers. There was never an attempt to break into homes or to protest in front of people's private homes. That was pioneered by the "black flags" - the predecessor to Kaplan.
Kaplan was the first time NO arrests were made to violent and illegal actions.
There were protests at private homes during the Bennett-Lapid government. See here: https://www.timesofisrael.com/hundreds-rally-near-homes-of-yaminas-shaked-orbach-urge-them-to-oppose-govt/amp/
“Kaplan was the first time
NO arrests were made to violent and illegal actions.” This is false: https://www.timesofisrael.com/liveblog-july-24-2023/amp/
There were no court cases - all arrested were released. There has been no arrests of Kaplan protesters that have even come close to going to trial.
You said no arrests were made, I showed there were. Instead it acknowledging your error you are shifting the goalposts. And on the subject of arrests, my understanding is that nobody who broke into the army base last week has been arrested.